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Thankyou for your kind reply draftdodger oh I mean wallbuilder oh whatever. You and Lisa cannot hide the fact that you are ignoring the fact that even the Bill Clinton, who if you did some investigation would find he is your daddy, used rendition to a much larger degree than the bushies along with all types of wiretapping. AND these tools are always sunsetted out during times of peace. Lisa is trying to make the case of lying being involved in the use of temporary and uniquily effective tools. The use of which is NOT an indication or an end to any of your,mine,or our rights. While I do admire that you and I do take the time to watch our Government and implore you to keep up the good work of vigilence I also ask you to never judge me as a shill until you "take the log out of your own eye". Never let the patriotic fire for America go out in your heart my fellow American, MJ.